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tv   Charlie Rose  PBS  February 8, 2010 11:00pm-12:00am EST

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tonight, a conversation with eike batista. he's the richest american brazil and he may very well be in the future the richest person in the world. >>razil has today the right of l if you have a asset, the asset is protected. you have pools of talent, because brazil through this government before, government-controlled company, petrol, electrobrass, they have formed incredible talent pools that we have known how to grab to put into our structures. >> rose: a story about a city, a country, and a continent next. ♪ ♪
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if you've had a coke in the last 20 years, ( screams ) you've had a hand in giving college scholarships... and support to thousands of our nation's... most promising students. ♪ ( coca-cola 5-note mnemonic ) captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. s the richest they were
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brazil. he may very well become the richest person in the world brazil. he has vast holdings in a number of businesses in brazil. it is an interesting time to talk about him, to talk about ree ree, the place that he loves and also the latin american experience. i'm pleased to have him here for the first time. >> thank you, charlie. thank you for having me. >> rose: 15 years from now, what is it you want to have axhooef >> we have created a base through our different companies oil being the biggest one-- to basically have a ten-year growth history. this is quite unique. the main reason for it is that because we found rich oil fields. rich and big oil fields. so they will help us basically to create a ten-year growth story, which is very unique. i think by 2020, brazil... you
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know, actually the president is saying this and we believe that by 2015 brazil should be the fifth-largest economy in the world. and we're just one of the many companies that is helping brazil grow. obviously the oil discoveries are so big that shell the make a big change to any country. we're talking about a hundred billion barrels of recoverable oil. this is the potential for if different brazilian oil bases. >> rose: is most of that oil going to come from the deep end of it or more shallow end? >> i think one of the different things in our company is that 85% in our case is from shell oil. so no technology. shelf technology, as i like to call it. $8 lifting cost oil. so this is really profitable oil
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production. >> rose: let me go back now. your father is a very distinguished brazilian. ran a... head of mining, i think, in brazil. government job. you received your education in germany. >> yes, basically up to my&r0v h year i was educated in brazil. iák to myúñ 22nd year of age i spent in europe, basically, following my father who back then wasu8nrlç internationalizig c.v.r.d., was creating the offshore offices for the company. >> rose: went to college there. >> yes. >> rose: studied metal lure ji. to haveaés on you? >> what my father taught me, what i learned from him, is to think big. because he billed... there's a
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movie in brazil called "brazil's engineer," it's about him. >> because he builds part of and so i learned to think big.,o
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know, as a... i would say middle-class educated... middle-class family, i think it's very important for young people to suffer a little bit. and this stress, you know, having to make up for taken cary always have, up to my 18th year, i don't think i would have been, you know... >> rose: as tough as you became? >> yes. yes. it was a different seed that was planted in me. and i see this in lots of friends of mine in brazil who
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educate their children giving them everything or making it too easy. so, you know in my education this stress was very important. >> rose: this provides a great challenge for you because as you know the speculation is with your oil holdings you may very well-being become the richest person in the world. you have two sons? >> two sons, yes. >> how are you going to make sure they have the same drive that you do? >> well, they're going to have to go through stress also. it's vital for them. a year ago, my oldest son, i sent them to work in a garage. and at night he came home and said "daddy, it's very hot under a car." right, well, you have to go through this otherwise you won't occupy the position of your father. i tell them to concentrate. >> rose: you also early on had a entrepreneurial instinct. you wanted to own those gold mines that you bought.
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>> yes. >> rose: what was that about. back down to brazil, i learned that the gold rush was going on in.5y ñz?mtá pick-and-shovel miners like in the old wild west in the united states, california and alaska. and initially i started a trading company to buy the gold and sell it. in this process which took a year and a half i bought and sold $16 million worth of gold and made a 10% margin. a net. so there i was with $6 million in my hand and margins were going down because competition started to come into... other traders came into the zone i said, listen, i have to reinvent myself. so with my technical background, i decided why not buy one of these rich pick-and-shovel operations and mechanize it? that's why in 1983 i had brazil's first alluvial mechanized gold mine running in
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the amazon jungle. and i like to say that i was lucky. i had obviously underestimated the weather, technical conditions, diseases, logistics, you know? but ultimately the mine was so rich and i still like to remember it was idiot-proof because it survived all my mistakes. and i ended up when it started to run i ended up making a million dollars a month. so my six... i was down... the $6 million i had, i was down to $300,000. i remember thinking i should have gone to the beach, you know. >> rose: (laughs) yes. but the moral of this story is if you're going to take a risk, make sure you know the difficulties, but also make sure that the payoff at the end that's possible is rich enough to justify... >> all the risks. >> rose:... all of the risks and
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all of the problems. >> rose: >> and this is a lesson that i learned only work with world-class assets, richesra[ sets that can afford mistakes. mistakes, delays. this is very much the culture of the group. >> rose: i don't want to skip ahead to oil, but is that the time for an auction on the pil exploration off the shore of brazil and you went in withasvdj great risk, was it the samexw@ principle? >> the same principle but, you know, over time you learn that knowledge is important. so we're fortunate to hire a great team of executives from petrol brassho had great... the brazilian state oil company. >> who was so successful in finding oil in the basin. w didhich was unique was put up $1.3 billion to participate in the auction and risk because each well cost $40 million and this risk concept comes from my first adventure
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>> rose: but there were stops along the way which are interesting. you then went to, i guess, toronto... what's the name of the... >> t.v. ex. >> rose: ups and downs. >> gold cycle,... when gold was up i was in switzerland, when gold was down i was in bangladesh. >> rose: (laughs) >> i had three cycles like this. >> rose: you made a lot of money; you lost a lot of money. >> yes. >> rose: overall, would you consider that a success? >> yes, because i built eight gold mines between 1980 and the year 2000 around the world. five in brazil, one big one in chile and two in canada. the south american mines are still running. so great successes. the mine in chile, for instance, just to give you an idea, charlie, 4,000 meters altitude in the desert, i had to bring water from 150 kilometers, power from 200 kilometers.
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understanding there was an unpolished diamond, there was a mountain with $5 billion worth of gold and silver and i would have an 80% margin. so i had to bring water, i had to bring power but there was enough wealth to pay for the bills. >> rose: you also invested in russian gold mines, didn't? >> see, brazil is not rich in gold mines so between 1980 and the year 2000, working for t.v.x., you know, the bankers, they constantly told me you have to stay a pure play because it's easy for the analysts to analyze your company. they don't want to mix with copper and other metals so it had to be maximum silver. so gold and silver. so as i basically scanned all of south america i said, listen, i have to go where the mines are. and this in the cam chat a
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peninsula, the most eastern part of russia. kamchatka. it's part of the rim of fire. so i went toctmi russia, boughto kamchatka, bought two mines there. realized that the russians and the bears would not have me there, all they would have taken away from me. >> rose: they were not going to tolerate you making a lot of money. >> no, no, they would not. they would end up taking it away, so this was my international experience. greece a little bit also the same. i invested $330 million in greece and ultimately the greek government did not give me the environmental license to explore. so that all in all there the year 2000 i said... i was... my success ratio in south america was 100% in the resource business. resource and logistics. because mining has a lot to do with logistics. because if you don't... >> rose: tell us what you mean
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by "logistics." mine in the middle of nowhere, you have to secure your town, you have to have your power generation. you think like a military operation. so this is why we developed the 360-degree way of thinking, it's the e.b.x. model of doing business. >> tell me what the philosophy is to achieve the kind of success and wealth you've achieved. >> i think it's... we have, as i mentioned before, the 360-degree approach to business which is, i think, today most entrepreneurs or c.e.o.s, they... they're good in some areas but fail eventually in the legal engineeringtor fiscal engineering or the environmental engineering. there's a whole0clx5 row of ares that a c.e.o.... >> rose: all the spokes in t 360 degrees. >> yes, yes, very much like... this is an interesting chart to show you.
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>> rose: 360-degree approach. proven execution, capacity of e.b.x. groups public and private companies. but also there is this idea, to oil. you... at every stage have gone out to find the best people and been prepared to pay them and give them a participation. >> of my shares. of owner stock which is very different also in the public markets. shares to my top guys come from my stock. i don't dilute my investors. because i'm... i love corridor management. i see them everyday. if they make a mistake, it's my fault, because... >> rose: because you chose them or... >> because i chose them. it won't be diluted to a potential... normally when people issue stock, company stock, it dilutesqúa shareholders. in my case, the stock to my top people come from my own stock.
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my share of participation in the company. >> rose: one of the people you brought in who now runs your oil exploration company was formerly head of exploration. >> yes, yes. i think, charlie... >> rose: so this was a man who knew everything there was to know about... >> yes. it's a... oil finding in the brazilian basin, in most basins, is a disciplinary science. so you need a lot of3'[ peopl. reservoir engineers, sats tigss, engineers, engineers. and geologists, of course. and what i have learned in the better than i read books. so when a technical guy tells me what he has to show because i put the billion three dollars to invest because of what the team
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showed me that what we potential could do, you know? they showed me what the hit ratios were that i eventually could have a 60% success ratio. if i spend a billion dollars, at least $600 million,%ehcñ of the billion would potentially find wealth. as of today, we have had 100% success. >> rose: 100%? >> yes. every well was a hit. >> rose: every well off... >> that we drilled since august of last year was a hilt. we found massive oil reserves already. 100% hit ratio. >> rose: what do you think your net worth could become in the next ten years? >> a hundred billion. >> rose: you think so? >> yes. >> rose: a hundred billion dollars. >> yes. this is... what can i say? i'm lucky to be... >> rose: that makes you the richest man in the world. >> i don't know. >> rose: richest person. unless they do something to double what they have. >> what is important, charlie,
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is that brazil is the highway for that, you see? brazil has today the right ofçó law, you know, the jurisdiction is great. you know, if you have an asset, you have pools of talent because brazil through this government... before government-controlled company, electrobras, they have formed incredible talent pools that we have known up to grab to put into our structures. snuf you have an interesting idea also about government and government's role in its relationship to the private sector. >> yes. i think, you know, a project of this size always requires... you need the concessions of the government, concessions that are auctioned out and you participate and you win them. >> rose: so the government also has their own share. >> oh, yeah. the government... most parts in the world the largest shareholder anyway in this
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wealth-creation process. but there's the environmental piece which you're talking to government offices concerning environmental issues. we, again, on the 360-degree approach, we take care of social and environmental issues right from the beginning. not after when you start making profit. you have to show that you are good and a modern corporate citizen. especially when you talk about this infrastructure and projects that start from zero. because this is... these are things where there was nothing before. when we build a port, i'm building a port north of rio in the middle of nowhere. ship iron other and soybeans to china, which is brazil's major outlet. >> rose: it's the largest market not only iron. china has already surpassed the u.s. as our largest trading
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partner. did you know? >> rose: i did know that. so what's the impact of that? china becoming a huge market and a huge demand for energy, for oil, for iron, because of all the building they're doing. >> it's the highway between brazil and china the that the world should start paying attention to because it's fabulous. most things that the chinese need we have in abundance and we can export and there's an ent market on the other side which is... because what does the world... in an economy, you need pent-up demand. china has an endless pent-up demand for these products. oil, food and iron other. other. >> rose: and they just made a $10 billion loan to petrobras, the brazilian oil company. >> the chinese were bringing the chinese steel mill to build a $5 billion investment in our superport in brazil: so the chinese are coming to brazil
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also to... because they found out that it's cheaper to produce feel? brazil than it is in china. >> rose: do we have anything to fear from this or should we welcome this? >> i think the world should welcome it, because it's a market that only brazil can attempt, you know? can supply. only brazil has... >> ro: china's now the largest market for cars. >> yes. but you know, cars, i think the world is getting very much... we're walking into protectionist phase in the world, aren't we? it's all about job preservation. so, for instance, in the oil business, brazil has the this new regulation that you have to have 75% of brazilian content to be able to explore the oil. >> rose: talk to us about brazil. brazil was the last... one of the last countries to fill the economic... to feel the economic recession. and one of the first to come out of it. >> yes. >> rose: what's going on down there? is it simply because of the
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lñj÷ for commodities or is it something else? >> no, i think, as i said before thank god fernando enrique, our uring his eight-year tenure, he repaired brazil. we did our tarp in 1996. >> rose: right. >> the banks have adult supervision. >> rose: right. >> so our banks in brazil, they literally had profits, they're totally underleveraged. i'm a businessman that has lived in brazil as a country that lived from hand to mouth. today, you know, connected to the world's marketsñi, we have access to capital. >> rose: and it has a history oo corrected duringmnm:9[f his tenure.t(dav his zero inflation program. and then wvtñr lula came inkñ i he simply... the main thing lula did was respect the rule of law. respect the contracts. >> rose: because of its background, when lula came in many people expected him to be a
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different president than he was 4ñ the best thing i did was i changed. he changed. >> rose: how did he change and who is responsible for his revolution? >> by electing his vice president. he's a businessman, a very with that move he brought the rest of the society together to win the election. and he realized that it's a mix of... you know, you have to have social policies, of course, but let businessmen run the... let entrepreneurs run our country. he understood that finally. because he... we(&needed to exorcise the left. every south american country... i mean, look at the history maybe of spain with flee pay
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gonzalez, the left part of... other neighbors, for instance, venezuela went to chavez, populism.qé%içú argentina went to populism. thank god we got... and lula says it himself. thank god i wasn't elected before, you know. thank god he only came into power in 2002. he jokes about it when he speaks about this. so coming on 2002 with his ç8owd 'i÷f3uñ0,lq-ñap6 thef
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you have to start thinking out of the b
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>> rose: what's interesting about brazil, too, and lula, he made a trip to central america. brazil seems to, with its economic success, really want to say we are first among equals in latin america. >> yes, yes. >> rose: yes? we are the most important player in this continent. >> i think people... brazil is like... you know, we... we're good soccer players. (laughs) create immense good will. >> rose: feel great pride about soccer, the world cup coming. >>. >> yes. >> rose: and great pride about the olympics coming.
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>> yes, olympics are a big change. >> rose: and what do you want to make rio become? >> well, i'm investing... self-esteem was something we had lost in brazil and rio. specifically rio. the banking move to sao paulo, many companies left rio and as you probably know, rio used to be the capital of bra snil the '60s. we lost to brasilia. >> rose: right. >> without any compensation. germany moved their capital from bonn to berlin and bonn got many tens of millions of dollars or euros as compensation. rio never got anything. so i think olympics is a little bit... hey, payback time. >> rose: and you're restoring the hotel gloria? >> yes, restoring the gloria. a nice traditional old hotel built in 1922. so we're restoring how it was i: .
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we believe in total transparency. >> rose: because? >> public markets. you know, people like transparency, you have to be up front. >> rose: let me come back to america. you mentioned the political gridlock we have. what else? when you look at our future what is it that concerns you and what is it that encourages you about our future? >> i think, you know, if i compare america with brazil, america and europe, you are now heavily indebted like we were before. now, i mean, you know, if you
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look at china... i don't know the indian my so well, but between china and brazil, we... we have pent up demand. we're not indebted at all. only 3.5% of our g.d.p. is in mortgages. >> rose: what are the consequences for the united states with that? that we have? >> well, you have to put your... >> rose: a certain austerity? >> yes, you have to be a little bit more spartan for a while. >> rose: and what about europe? >> and i think there's a massive shifting of wealth. you know, between americaened europe to the merging markets. either through currency appreciation, because you know brazil's self-sufficient in everything. brazil's currency is the store value. you know, probably oil is or gold. but oil is used and currencys... you know, how do you value the
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euro or the rating agencies who the greek situation is known for how many years? >> rose: a huge debt problem. >> the rating agencies, charlie, they used to put brazil in the same league as nigeria. >> rose: you have an interesting thing you've said about dubai. i mean, you basically... you said... well, you tell me what you said about dubai because basically you said they made investments at a boom time that they would not have been successful in normal times and when tough times come, it's heading for the door. >> yes. it's all about... you know, i think world in the last... or america in the last 20 years has focused too much towards banking and financing engineering, you know? best students leaving university went to banks or to law firms, right? >> rose: right. >> where are the engineers? america, you should be driving... today from my point of view, from what i understand,
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what technology there is, you should be driving electrical cars and you're not. >> rose: (laughs) well, yes but are you? >> no, no. >> rose: but you're saying because of our consumption here in this country and because we're addicted to oil in this country. but you're in the oil business, which brings me to another point. >> china is such a big consumer, charlie. >> rose: yeah, but they are alsoly hugely invested in trying to find solar. >> absolutely. >> rose: windmills. >> yes. >> rose: they're looking for alternative sources as they continue their economic boom which is dependent now on coal. >> but i make a quantitative... if you... a billion people or more walking into the consumer class. the resources are not there. solar energy, wind power, just part of this equation. >> rose: so you're saying knob the oil business is going to be
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a good business for a long time. >> yes, at least for the next ten years. >> rose: that's good enough for you because you operate in ten-year cycles. is it possible in ten years you'll say "i'm out of the oil business"? >> our structures have become so big that now i'm part of brazil you know? politically i have to operate in a different way. i'm part of the establishment. so nationalistic feelings have been arisen in the last couple years. resources have become strategic pieces of political thinking. not so simple. >> rose: you... tell me how competitive you think you are. >> very. i'm very competitive. >> about everything. to win? >> i like a challenge. >> rose: but i don't... i don't challenge... i have to know that i can perform, you know?
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i don't do just anything. >> rose: because part of your pride in rio is that you want to beat the hell out of sao paulo? >> yes. >> rose: (laughs) what is that about? >> it's about... people from sao paulo are called paulistas and they're much more diligent when they build a restaurant. they like quality. so by investing heavily in rio. i have a restaurant, i want to do it with quality. >> rose: is it a chinese restaurant? >> it's a chinese restaurant. chinese fusion. like mr. chow in new york. it's a chef from mr. chow in new york, my partner, mr. lam. so built quality things in rio that will last for 50, 100 years. quality. because rio's mentality was tropical. short minded. you don't build a nice restaurant if you think you're going to have a return in three
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years. >> rose: you have not always been on the mark. (laughs) the mistakes you've made the jeep business. you didn't do so well in the jeep business. >> no, listen, i think every silly man likes to build his own car so i tried to build my own car. i failed. but good experience, very good experience. >> rose: you also tried to get into the beer business. didn't work out too well, either did it? (laughs) >> no, no. beer business, what else would you have? >> rose: well, the luxury business, a perfume. you didn't do so well in that. >> no. >> so what does this say. how do you... so you come off hugely successful in oil, iron, but not so good with cars, jeeps perfumes. >> this is why you go back to our 360 degree of thinking that you get perfection. this is what the learning curve that's why today that's how we operate. and i think failures to close a
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business in the right way is something you have to do, you know? >> rose: but not only that, your philosophy is don't fall in love with your business. >> absolutely. >> rose: don't fall in love with it. >> repositioning speed is something very strong in the group. sometimes companies have the border proof $100 million and then they see they're going the i don't know direction they spend the other 80. we stop. this is stop loss. >> rose: where is the politics of latin america going? you just elected a conservative billionaire. sebastian panaro. what do you think ohim? >> i know his brother very well. phenomenal man. he owns probably the most efficient... efficiency concept. >> rose: on the other hand
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there's morales in bolivia. what do you think of him? some stuff on the border because of environmental stuff. >> i lost $60 million in steel mill. but see if you understand bolivian history, you come to the conclusion that they were exploited. they were robbed. i would even dare to tell you robbed for fouror five hundred years. so when morales came into power, everybody who was connected to the past, when you make revolution you eliminate... you kill it or live in it. >> rose: kill it or ship ith away. >> i went to bolivia six months before he came into power. so with that i was stamped with a... >> rose: you were part of the previous time. right. >> but i understand him. i think he... for the sake of bolivia, he had to make this revolution. >> rose: what do you think of colombia, euro by a. >> great.
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great. euro by a. >> bureau by a. >> chile. i would. brazil, we have 16 years of consolidated good rules, the laws, the system is working and with dpis minute, there's fiscal responsibility surpluses, so it's a well man which you are democracy. >> rose: argentina? >> no populist government. i feel sorry for my friends in the south. they... you know, it's a joke about argentina. argentina is a rolls royce driven by an egyptian chauffeur. >> rose: (laughs) sorry argentina, because it's such a rich, great country. latin america has been ignored
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for too long. it really has. and now brazil especially all of a sudden feeling its muscles. feeling like we have been overlooked and we are ready to go and we are... we got the stuff to do it, we got the government to do it, we've got the kind of entrepreneurial attitude to do it. we figured it out and we're not going to fall into the trap wes fell in before. >> absolutely. we were there before, we suffered very much between 1984 when brazil declared a moratorium. >> and the oil discoveries will make it the big whaes? will make brazil in the end do you think... >> six million barrels... >> rose: what does that put it in terms of saudi arabia, iraq, iran, libya? nigeria? >> the three four-fifths position. >> rose: and there's no question those deposits are there? >> no, they're there. >> rose: and there's no question you can get them. you can as says them without it costing prohibitive amount.
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>> a trillion dollars will be invested until 2020. so brazil will be producing five six million barrels. >> rose: are giant oil companies like exxon coming in there? >> no, because after the ninth round, brazil... >> rose: of the auction? >> of the auction. they changed the rules. the new rules now. >> rose: i've heard about this. what happened? >> the good thing about brazil is whatever you got grandfathered. they don't change the past, stock? you're allowed to change the future. >> rose: so if you come in now won't be the same rules you have. >> i don't think so. >> rose: you got in under the... at a time >> yes. actually, when we rose to billion dollars for the private equity, we said it to our investors, we said this is a unique time because... >> rose: at what moment did you see that? you were not the oil business. >> well,... >> rose: in your opinion the natural resource business but you were not in the oil... you
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know, you come in from... because you were rich. you had access to money so you could do a private place and you could build a... >> no, charlie, listen. >> rose: what don't i understand? >> when i build my first mine in the middle of the brazilian jungle and then chile at 4,000 altitude, i look at thing from the eagles perspective. and i have to look 360 degrees to see everything is right. and ultimately the value of my asset or the port that i'm buildingtor concession that i'm paying for that potentially there's a couple billion barrels or multibillion dollar value in the asset that i then polish with engineering. so i mastered the engineering to take the wealth out and i have to understand that... i don't want to... the very deep water
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oil reserves in brazil is a challenge for petrobras. they can handle it. i went to the shallow waters. so why did i go to the allow waters? it ease easy. why... >> rose: but why didn't they go to the shallow waters is the question. >> okay. but again i think that government-owned machines are not... they don't necessarily think n.p.v.s, which is net present value. it's big, we can develop it, we can do it type of thing. >> rose: someone said about you that you think like an investor. >> yes, i have to. wealth creation is all about in natural resources is identifying seeing these things and the putting the right people together to make it happen. >> rose: how much admiration do you have for two other people of huge wealth? one, bill gates, two, warren buffett. because of what they have done with their wealth. you're not even thinking about that now are you?
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you're not thinking about philanthropy... >> no, i want to be the world's biggest philanthropist. i'm sorry. that's how i was educated. >> rose: why do you want to be the world's biggest richest man, or richest person. >> it's consequence of the good work. because it shows... >> competence. talent? >> rose: competence... >> vision. >> i can help brazil. i can help my country. i can... see in these projects we're building a 250,000 people city. >> rose: 250,000? >> yes. phenomenon we're going to call it x city. we have all the right concepts and the right... you know. so i help my country. i want to help my country. because the last... between 1984 and the year 2000, so in 16 years brazil did everything wrong that the country could do
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wrong, right? so... and i think we had to pay huge amounts of spread, the risk spread. you know something? i'm very proud today in terms of the spread. today brazil is risk spread is 140 basis points. germany is 180. can you najaf? greece is obviously 700. but look, look brazil is today. this is the elite. better than germany. brazil's credit@ing is better than germany. so why... listen, ten years ago we were not as bad as nigeria. other countries we were compared to. so the rating agencies were very bad to brazil. what a miss valuation. unbelievable. today, you know, i used to come here to visit the top c.e.o.s and all the company now coming all to brazil.
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>> rose: looking to participate? >> yes. they finally understood that... and western civilization. because china is very much for chinese. china is tough, you know? brazil, if you build... if you open up your company in rio, you're considered a brazilian company. is you maybe... youwn it 100%, charlie enterprises, okay? charlie rose enterprises. if you have an office in rio de janeiro it's considered a brazilian company. very interesting, isn't it? >> rose: meaning we welcome you and consider you one of our own. >> you can go to the development bank and raise money. mercedes benz the other day got a billion reals in financing from the brazilian development bank. >> rose: creating the currency was a big thing, too. >> yes. >> rose: has there been a moment in the last several years in which you said at some point a man who loves his country like i
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do whose country has been as good to it as mine has been to me should go into politics. >> yes, i do. but right now i serve my country best developing this macro world class infrastructure that i'm building for my country. >> rose: ports and roads and power plants. >> yes. power plants all along the coast exactly. >> rose: if i look closely, do i find any dark side with you? i mean, any run ins with the law that i might want to look closely senate. >> no. you know i had a... >> rose: skirting too close to the edge? >> no, no. listen transparency part of how you educate and two years ago now the federal police intervened... >> rose: came in.
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they came to your house, didn't they seize everything? >> yeah, they seized the computer, they got everything. >> rose: what were they looking for? >> you know, we owned a mine in a northern territory of... most northern state of brazil and they... there's a gold mine owned by a canadian company and it's funny the same goldman has in it iron other. i owned the iron yore mine. other. other. so the police officer together two the public attorney... i understand the mistakes they did it was an unfortunate gigantic mistake. and i don't know if you know but that happened on a friday. on a monday i stepped out to all my investors and said listen, that is gigantic mistake that happened to me.
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>> rose: right. >> fortunately a week later, a couple days later president lula himself made a statement that they made a mistake in my case. >> rose: you've got chile which you admire, you've got peru which you admire. >> i admire garcia but i still think they have exorcise the left, if that's the way to put it. >> rose: get rid of it? >> i mean a more social or leftist government. they need to live this. the left has nod not come really into power. >> rose: mexico. filipe calderon. >> don't follow it at all. so i wouldn't like to... >> rose: but you're aware of the kind of... >> they have oil resources and colombian drug cartels have moved to mexico so i don't follow the country. >> rose: paraguay and uruguay.
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paraguay you've got a former priest. >> very small countries not really on our radar screen. you know, nice. >> rose: is lula a model for latin american leader, do you think? >> yes, he's a model. >> because they combine some sense of respect for the business community as well as a champion of the poor? >> yes. absolutely. this combination is very special in so many speeches he says "i would like to see the entrepreneurial animal spirit come out and the brazilians to help." >> rose: did you support him the first time he ran, though? >> i did. >> rose: you were there with him the first time? >> because i wanted to exorcise the left. that's why i use the term. i do not know what was going to happen, i didn't. but we knew we had to go through a left government. >> rose: so what happens to him now that he's leaving. >> oh, geez, he can do whatever... >> rose: he's a hero. >> 82% acceptance rate in his second term, charlie.
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holy macaroni. >> rose: (laughs) holy macaroni is an appropriate point. thank you for coming. >> thank you, charlie. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org ♪
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♪ if you've had a coke in the last 20 years, ( screams ) you've had a hand in giving college scholarships... and support to thousands of our nation's... most promising students. ♪ ( coca-cola 5-note mnemonic )
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ed mapp grew up going to the movies. i think back on my childhood and remember how important movies were to me. at that time, it was the only way to see the outside world. ed decided to be a professor - an expert on the impact of the media. today you have television. people have at least one tv set in their home. whatever messages coming on that screen is being extended to the entire family. now that's awesome. it can be affecting our country and culture for years to come. that's one of the reasons why public television is so important, because it does assume that responsibility. ed included his public television station in his will. consider joining the community of people who want public television to span generations.
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